ON THIS WEEK’S episode of Dinner SOS, test kitchen director and host Chris Morocco is joined by hostess with the mostest and test kitchen editor Kendra Vaculin to help callers plan a menu for their hosting needs!
We often get a lot of listener questions from folks planning dinner parties, picnics, and other gatherings, and they all ask, “Can you plan my menu for me?”. Finally, we’re dedicating an episode to doing just that. Luckily, Kendra is a dinner party animal, a pop-up pro! A host whisperer with a proven record of knowing not just what to cook for her own parties, but what you should be cooking for yours as well.
In this episode Chris and Kendra tackle as many menus as possible to help each caller on their hosting journey! Best of all, Kendra is challenged with answering each scenario in real time with no advance warning. Situations like, how to thread the needle between multiple dietary restrictions, or how to pick a menu that can be made days in advance so hosts can save their energy for the party itself. Planning a murder mystery party? Kendra’s got you covered! They recommend recipes like Andy Baraghani’s Poached Cod in Tomato Curry, Shilpa Uskokovic’s Citrus Caramel Sundaes With Toasted Almonds, Kendra’s very own aptly named Grilled Party Salmon with Green Romesco and many more!
Listen now to hear (hopefully) all the hosting and menu-planning secrets you’ve been waiting for!
Chris Morocco: Hey there, listeners, future callers and cooking enthusiasts. Welcome to Dinner SOS, the show where we help you save dinner or whatever you're cooking. I'm Chris Morocco, food director of Bon Appetit and Epicurious. My co-host today is... Well, she's a dinner party animal, a pop-up pro, that rare friend who enjoys cooking for a large impromptu gathering that, let's face it, probably has a theme to it. A host whisperer with a proven record of knowing not just what to cook for her own parties, but what you should be cooking for yours as well. Folks, it's Kendra Vaculin. Hi, Kendra.
Kendra Vaculin: Hi.
CM: Kendra, why is it you like hosting so much?
KV: Wow. I don't even know where to begin. I think a couple of reasons. Some that are extremely self-serving and some I like to think of as a gift to others. The self-serving element is I love to be at home. I would much rather be at home. But I want to hang out with my friends, so they should come to me, that way I don't have to get ready, I don't have to leave the house. When it's over, I can go right to bed. Amazing. The way that I lure people to my home and make my home the place where people hang is I offer them food.
CM: A neat and pragmatic solve to hear you enunciate it that way.
KV: It's really easy. I love to be barefoot. I love to just never put on the full outfit. That's how I want to live. If I can bring all my friends to me, then that's the goal. That's why I like hosting in my apartment. My apartment is not enormous, so I also like hosting other places too.
CM: I was just about to say, how do you do it?
KV: I have a renter-grade kitchen. It's not pretty, it's not aesthetic, but I've moved past that. I've decided, listen, that's the charm of my home. People aren't coming over to judge me on the cabinets that I did not choose. If they want to judge me, they can judge me on my lasagna, and that is going to rule. I can control the menu aspect. I can definitely curate some vibes. There are lots of things that you can do to redirect attention away from your renter-grade kitchen. Things like turn the lights down low, light a couple of candles.
CM: I love that you're reveling in these small details because they do make a difference. And I think for me, I have a hard time just getting to the starting line. Hosting presents this cascading set of logistical challenges that you need to be willing to rise above. And I love that this is your solve, but for me it's like, okay, figuring out the right menu for the crowd, committing to it, but then not changing everything the second you see those beautiful strawberries at the farmer's market. Not eating all of the strawberries you got at the farmer's market, the shopping, the prep. And in these moments I start to spin out because I'm reminded that there's such a big difference between being a great cook and being a great host.
KV: Totally.
CM: And these things have to come together in a really specific way. And I want to be the barefoot contessa, literally. That is what I aspire to be. I want to be the barefoot contessa wafting in with sprigs of fresh mint that I just picked, and my garden tomatoes and turning it all into edible gold, but instead, I feel like I'm Carmy from The Bear slamming plates into the trash can.
KV: Yelling behind at your children.
CM: Yeah, exactly. "On your left!" And I just get frustrated.
KV: So in terms of your first question, why do I love hosting? I think that being a good cook and a good host are distinct. Another element that shows up for me is that because my apartment is small and because I have bigger dreams, I'm bigger than my britches in terms of the kinds of hosting I wanted to do, that's why I started hosting dinner parties more broadly in New York and renting spaces where I could cook for bigger groups and things like that. And to me, that has really made me distinguish the difference between cooking and hosting because especially when you're not in your own space, it really highlights... And these are tools that you can then take back to your own space... How important the space is to creating your menu.
When you're at home, you sometimes think, "Well, I could do anything at home." But if I'm in a rented kitchen... Think of a vacation home, think of any place where you might want to be cooking for others that isn't your space. Suddenly you're like, "Okay, this oven is janky. I'm not going to put something that is really temperamental and has to be exactly right in this oven." That's not going to come out perfectly for my dinner party. So I have to think about a menu that maybe doesn't use the oven. You might think of this dream dinner party menu that you so want to make for people, but your home just is not feasible to do it. You might not have a stove that is amenable to frying chicken for 10. Maybe you don't have a lot of counter space. You need to be thinking space first. So prioritizing what you can achieve and starting there rather than starting with your big dream dishes means you always look like a pro because the dishes always come out well because you're working with what you've got.
CM: Practical is the new sexy.
KV: Yeah, I really think so.
CM: Honestly. And I think it's okay to think like that, right? That doesn't necessarily have to be the narrative you spin up for your guests.
KV: Oh my gosh, nobody knows.
CM: I did this because it's something I can do really well really easily here.
KV: Totally. Nobody knows that. I'm like, I've always wanted to try this... Secretly, you've tried it 100 times, you've nailed it.
CM: 100.
KV: Everybody thinks you've done it for the first time. You let them believe it. You're not lying. It's an omission. You just don't tell them how many times you've practiced.
CM: Love that. All right, well, I feel that gives us a little taste of your hosting POV. So here's what we're actually doing today.
KV: Okay.
CM: All right. We got so many questions in our inbox, which is podcasts, with an S, @bonappetit.com by the way, so keep them coming, that are about hosting that essentially boil down to, "Can you plan my menu for me?" Literally. People ask. And usually, frankly, we can't. There's just so many different things to get to in a day. But today, that's exactly what we're going to do. We're going to be throwing you, our resident superhost, as many of our menu planning questions as we can fit into the next half hour or so.
KV: Oh my god.
CM: Kendra has not seen any of these questions in advance. Can you confirm that Kendra?
KV: I can and I'm starting to regret deciding that. So they were like, "Do you want to see the questions in advance?" And I was like, "No, I'll do this on the fly." And now I'm like, "Oh my god." It's going to be great. It's going to be great. I'm so excited.
CM: All right. You feeling ready?
KV: Yes. I'm so ready.
CM: Let's jump in. So first question from Stephanie. "I have a group of eight longtime friends. We call ourselves The Dinner Collective who have been having dinner together on Monday nights for more than 20 years. We rotate homes and the host is responsible for providing a main dish, a couple side dishes and a salad or bread. It's not potluck, but the guests bring their own plates, et cetera, so the host isn't overwhelmed by dishes to wash. The problem is that over the years everyone has developed dietary restrictions. Historically, the meals are vegetarian and very occasionally, include fish or seafood. The forbidden list now has expanded to include soy, gluten, dairy, and most recently, eggs, when they are the dominant ingredient. Some foods that are not forbidden but are not loved by members include beans, mushrooms, bananas, and high carb meals. I would love some suggested recipes of what I might cook when it's my turn."
KV: Holy cow.
CM: For me, my brain is cutting to a video of a kitten playing with a ball of string. You know what I mean? Because it's just unwilling to engage with the enormity of this ask.
KV: Uh-huh. Okay, so first of all, I want to say BYO plates is so hilarious and fantastic to me. Wow, what a fun thing. You show up with your own plate-
CM: And then you'd bring it home.
KV: ... and then you'd wash it and bring it home. That's so smart. I love it. A group of my friends have started doing a similar vibe where... We call it a potluck, but it's like the person hosting it will come up with a theme and drop a shared notes app note to everybody, and then we'll all jump in the notes app and write what dish you're going to bring so there's no overlap. So the theme will be Mediterranean and everyone will jump in and say the thing that they're going to make. It's quite fun and you can easily feed a ton of people this way because you're only responsible for a couple little bits and bobs.
CM: Absolutely.
KV: Okay, so here's what I'm thinking. Because you're keeping mostly vegetarian, there is one that I think would be really delightful, but you're going to have to swap out the protein from chicken to fish, but I think it will be just as good. Preserved lemon and tomato chicken is what it's called from August 2024, and it's a really easy and flavorful braise situation using fresh cherry tomatoes and tomato paste. So together you build this tomato sauce. You have the really cooked down flavor from the tomato paste, but then the fresh burst of acidity and also texture of the cherry tomatoes, plus chopped up, preserved lemon, which adds this brightness and a little bit of funk. You build the sauce out in your pan, and then what you can do is just add like a cod or a white fish to this pan and spoon the sauce over it and cook it right in the sauce until it's cooked through. We have a number of recipes on the site that are similar in terms of whitefish being cooked this way. Usually, you season the cod and then you nestle it into your sauce and then you can cover it and cook it until the fish is just opaque throughout. It's, depending on how thick the fish is, probably like five to eight-ish minutes, and then it's simmering in this beautiful sauce. So it's soy-free, gluten-free, dairy-free, no eggs, and pescatarian if you use the fish.
Let me think of one other thing. People poo-poo a risotto, but I think they're great, and you can do vegan risotto. It's very possible to do that. So it's naturally gluten-free because you're using rice, and instead of butter or cream, you can just use olive oil on the base, do your onion and garlic at the base, toast in your rice and build it out, and then you can finish it with a little bit of non-dairy milk. You can use almond milk or cashew milk. I think cashew milk is really, really good here. And then what you could do is make yourself a little vegan pesto using cashews and also basil and lemon juice and garlic and then spoon and swirl that right into the risotto at the end. So it has this really vibrant green color, really springy. And that served alongside some bright salads I think is a really good win.
CM: We're going to take a quick break. When we get back, the party planning continues.
All right, listen, we're off and running now. All right?
KV: Yeah.
CM: From Christina, "I really like to cook and I really like to host, but I'm starting to think that they don't go hand in hand, for me, anyway. I love spending a whole Saturday in the kitchen listening to podcasts or a book, cooking for a dinner party. The issue is that by the time my guests arrive at 7:00, I'm tired and ready for a break. I usually muster up some energy, but I can feel myself petering out earlier than the guests. I know the answer is to simplify the menu or to try to make some things the night before, but I don't want to give up that glorious day in the kitchen preparing. I guess I'm wondering if I can split the difference, spend one whole Saturday cooking and then host the following week. So I'm looking for dinner party recipes that can hold for an entire week or let's assume at least a few days and still be good."
KV: Whoa.
CM: Five days sounds like a lot to me.
KV: That's hard. Okay. The way that you can make this happen, I think is freezing stuff. If you can clear out your freezer and stuff it with stuff that you make, that will be, I think the only way to hold something for a full week is to freeze it. So you can get a lot done and just wrap it in plastic or put it in a quart container and get it in your freezer. So building sauces that way, if you wanted to make a big beautiful broth for something, you could do it a week in advance. Individual appetizer type things that you're going to then bake or fry, something that is like puff pastry based or anything like that where you're being meticulous and building out little guys, you can put them right on a sheet pan that's lined with parchment paper, wrap the sheet pan in plastic and put it in your freezer. And then you can just take the plastic off and put it right into the oven from the freezer and then that'll hold for the week.
I would say building something in its entirety and then holding it for a week is really tough, so you're probably better off creating your components that you're going to tap into later. And that would be my suggestion even if what you're doing is spending your glorious day in the kitchen on Saturday and then hosting people for early dinner on Sunday, which I think might be a solve.
For me, something that I came across a lot in honing my hosting abilities is once everybody arrives and the excitement is happening and my adrenaline is kicking in and it's time to go, I am not as good of a cook anymore because I am wanting to talk to everybody and making sure you have your drink, I'm flitting around the room, and then suddenly I'm like, "Did I even season that with salt or did I completely forget?" So the more components that I can make in full before crunch time happens when I know I'm taking my time and I'm tasting as I'm going and I know it's flavored exactly the way I want, and then when it's go time I just dump that sauce that I already know is a 10 out of 10 into the pot, I don't have to be tweaking at that moment because I'm really not in a mental space to be tweaking. I'm in a mental space to make sure you have a beer. So I don't know if that's helpful for you, but for me that long, luxurious, I'm not in a rush or anything, that is such a dream. I totally hear you on that. Maybe doing that on Saturday and then having everybody come over for a sit down at 5:00 PM dinner on Sunday so you can go home and get ready for your week. But that might be the way to split it up.
CM: That's smart I think to employ your freezer. What else comes to mind for you in terms of... If you were going to cook something this weekend to serve to six or whatever people the following weekend, what would that look like for you?
KV: Let me think. Let me think.
CM: I think of things a little bit like, "Oh, well, I want to get some braising done," or, "I want to make rabbit bolognese." I want something where it's like, okay, the main body of the cook time is somewhat inactive, but you certainly don't need to be doing that the day you have folks arriving.
KV: Right. Any long cook pasta sauce is really great, and there's a lot of ways to go there. I always pick a bolognese when I'm cooking for people in a vacation home type situation because people love a pasta night, and also you can just bring a big hunk of meat and a couple cans of tomatoes. It's very easy to do that. I also like meatballs. Meatballs are a really good thing to freeze, really easy and you can go a lot of different flavor directions with that. It doesn't have to be spaghetti and meatballs. You could really riff all around. There's a really fun mint chutney on the site that is served with meatballs. It's yogurt and green sauce and meatballs. I think they're made with lamb. That's a really fun one.
CM: You've done chicken meatballs at least once, if not twice.
KV: Definitely love a chicken meatball, even love a tofu meatball, which I've done on the site. Yeah.
CM: I love that. All right, so this is where we get a little bit more niche. From Neelam, "We are going strawberry picking with a group of friends and then everyone's coming over to our home afterwards. I'm struggling to come up with a menu that will allow me to prep ahead of time and then start assembling and popping things into the oven as soon as we get home. I don't want everyone to have to wait too long and I don't want to be stressed making a bunch of food at the last minute. About our group, three families, a total of 13 people with toddlers and kids, vegetarians and meat eaters alike. One kid has a nut allergy. We'll figure out an assemblable strawberry dessert for the kids to help make together, but what can I make that is filling, fresh and fun, and no sandwiches?"
KV: Okay. I guess my question is do you want to integrate the strawberries into other places? Because if so, there's definitely some things you can do or even just hint at it, which could be cute. Obviously, salads are a great place where you could make your dressing completely in advance. You can prep your ingredients that need to be prepped in advance. Wash your various vegetables, wash your lettuces, wrap them in a towel. If anything has to be sliced, that kind of thing.
CM: Make some three minute vinaigrette.
KV: Make some three minute red wine vinaigrette, shake it up in a jar and keep it in your refrigerator. And then when you get back you can add chopped up strawberries and a goat cheese or something to your salad and that is done and dusted.
CM: Here's where a make-ahead vegetarian pasta could really be your friend-
KV: Totally.
CM: ... in terms of having a sauce prepared and then just firing off some pasta and tossing it all together.
KV: I think something like lemony and creamy would be really nice here. Just a really simple pasta al limone I think could be really delightful, and you're doing very little other than just melting butter and squeezing lemon juice. And squeeze all the lemons before you leave, have all of that prepped and ready to go. Have your pot full of water just sitting on your stove.
CM: Totally.
KV: As soon as you get home you turn the stove on. I think that's really an easy one. I also think you could... Because starting the day with strawberry picking really put me in a mental space of so idyllic and delightful.
CM: Sounds awesome.
KV: I'm so excited about it. But another thing I think you could do here is a cold fish because you said there's vegetarian eaters and meat eaters. If people eat fish, I really love a cold fish preparation. If you roast a salmon the day before and then keep it in your refrigerator, and then you can have it out with... It's not a sandwich... Toasts and other little bits-
CM: Your green romesco sauce or salsa verde-
KV: Really yummy.
CM: ... would be so good. Just having a punchy sauce ready to go I feel like negates the fact... And not that it needs to negate anything. You're not apologizing for anything here, Neelam, right? Yeah, you did this in advance, but you're pulling these wonderful, full on, flavorful elements out of the fridge that're basically ready to go.
KV: Totally. I also think there's an element to prepping in advance for a party that feels like meal prep, and you can tap those same skills here. So the way you might create a bunch of different containers of things for you to mix and match throughout your week. Maybe you're making a beautiful orzo salad and you are cooking that in advance and you're roasting off various vegetables or cooking various components first and keeping them in containers, and then when you get home you're dumping the pasta and all of the various mix-ins, stirring together and now you have this gorgeous pasta salad that is great at room temperature, all of the components of which you made long in advance.
CM: Totally. From Lindsay, "I'm planning to host a murder mystery dinner party for 12. The setting is Casablanca in 1942. The game insists that we have three courses, apps, mains, desserts and suggests going with something Moroccan to go with the theme. I'm looking to be able to prep something ahead of time. Think casserole-ish type of main so that I am not needed in the kitchen while I'm trying to solve the murder."
KV: Okay, I know what I want you to do.
CM: You do?
KV: Yeah. I think you should make a couscous. You're going to go a chicken and rice type of vibe, but it will be couscous instead, and you can do tagine-ish flavors. So you could do a casserole dish that you have your couscous in there, plus maybe rehydrated, dried apricots chopped up and olives and ras el hanout, some fun spices. And then you're going to just nestle your chicken in there and bake it right inside. I think that is going to be so delicious.
CM: Yeah. Leetal Arazi has a great tagine recipe, and we have some others Epicurious. Something in that space which is so great ahead of time. And couscous you can make and then reheat. You can just cover it with foil and throw in the oven and it revives miraculously. Dessert? Moroccan dessert? This is where I'm a little bit tapped out, but I'm thinking you could maybe do a flavored meringue and do an assembled to order pavlova or Eton Mess type situation and just get some interesting flavors in there, like fruit.
KV: Yeah. The first thing I thought of, and I don't know if this is on theme or not, but I feel like it would make sense with the other dishes would be a syrupy fruit kind of thing. Shilpa has this really great recipe on the site for an orange caramel sundae where you-
CM: A sundae. Moroccan sundae. Why didn't I think of that?
KV: You cut up oranges and then you build a caramel on the stove and then you pour the caramel over the oranges, the hot caramel in a large baking dish, and then the fruit cools in the caramel and then you refrigerate it overnight for many hours. And so it soaks up all this amazing flavor and it also imbues the caramel with all the citrus flavor. And then she has you toast almonds and butter on the stove also, so you could even add a pinch of a spice there, and then-
CM: Almost like a wet walnut.
KV: The other day, Chris-
CM: Kendra's like, "Actually, it's nothing like a wet walnut. What is that word?" Retreat.
KV: Chris always mentions wet walnuts. He says it's such an appealing ice cream topping, and I'm like, "Nobody wants that." It sounds horrible.
CM: But a sundae.
KV: A sundae. And then you could do fun ice cream, like a spiced nut thing and these caramelly, syrupy fruit.
CM: And I love that this is a dessert that's like a creature of the world, just like the folks hanging out in Casablanca in 1942 trying to get their exit visas. A fast app for her. What are we starting off with? A fun spiced nut? What are we doing?
KV: So if you've got your nuts in your dessert, you know could bookend it that way. Or you could do-
CM: You could some crunchy something with a little harissa dip.
KV: Yes. On the side you definitely want to do... There's harissa honey roasted carrots on the site that I think would be so delicious-
CM: Oh, yeah. Do that.
KV: ... on the side of the tagine. I want that to be there. And then to start... Let's see. I think to start, I always will think that crudites are good. I always think that having something to dip is nice.
CM: Crudites that aren't just like carrot spears with blunt ends.
KV: No. You've got to be interesting.
CM: You've got to be interesting with the vegetables.
KV: Yeah. I love to get purple cauliflower and cut long pieces. I love to get radishes and keep the little tops on.
CM: And pickled dilly beans. Something that's like pickly in the mix goes a long way.
KV: Yes. If you quickly pickle like green beans and then put those on and they're crisp and crunchy but still dippable. Obviously, I love celery. The other thing I was thinking is just a really easy olive. A marinated olive is so easy to make in advance with smashed garlic and some citrus, pulling in the citrus that you might have in your dessert.
CM: We're going to take another break. When we're back, Kendra takes it on home with a family gathering at the beach and more inspiring pre-dinner snacks.
And we're back. All right. From Adam, "I come home from the UK to the US only a few times a year and my summer trip is a very important time to spend time with my family at our beach house. I love, love to cook, but I want to prioritize spending time with them over lengthy and elaborate meal preparations. We have an awesome kitchen with two fridges, but the summer days get so sweltering that we don't want to put the oven on. We have a family party planned for 12 people and I'm really struggling to come up with a menu that doesn't involve putting a baked pasta in the oven. Last year we did a taco bar and some pulled pork in the instant pot. We have a grill outside so could use that for sure as long as it doesn't pull one person away for extended periods of time. So limited oven usage, lots of fridge space, a grill outside, slow cooker, crock pot inside. Oh, and of course we have two vegetarians and a few people who may be quite basic in their tastes. What can we do? Can you help?" What's a good vegetarian, grillable something?
KV: Well, so the first thing I thought of is grilled antipasti, where you do all of your vegetables grilled. You could do zucchini and peppers, eggplants, onions, all kinds of stuff, mushrooms, grilled, and then you throw them on a platter with some torn cheese and a drizzle of a balsamic vinaigrette over the top of it, and it's such a fun, snacky first thing. Serve that with some crusty bread or crackers or something. I think that's a really delicious first place to go.
And then I developed a recipe in the slow cooker against my will because I was like, "I've never used one before," and so I was like, "I don't want to have to learn how to use this machine and then develop a recipe with it." But then I did and it actually was really delicious, and it was a peanut butter chicken and it happens entirely in there. You can use any nut butter and it is a great lime and nut and aromatic type of vibe. So you could very easily make some steamed rice on the side and a cabbage slaw type of thing with a lot of rice wine vinegar. You could do a green papaya salad inspired. We have something on the site that's like mashed green beans that are in the same style as som tum. And so that would be a really fun guy on the side. Yeah, I think that would be a really fun Thai-ish twist that would be quite delicious.
CM: And you could do marinated skewers that work in that world too. We've got a lot of different coconut milk and other marinated skewers. And for vegetarians, we've been grilling paneer, we've been grilling halloumi. You could do halloumi and mushroom. Combine some different elements so that I think everybody would have something to be excited about.
KV: Yeah, exactly. If you wanted to take it out of the slow cooker entirely, do peanut satay but on chicken, on tofu and throw it on the grill.
CM: Absolutely. Cool. Last question from Kathy. "I have no problem planning a main and two sides for a dinner party, but I struggle to come up with more than spiced nuts, hummus or olives to serve with pre-dinner drinks. And then for a starter for dinner, I usually serve a green salad. Boring. An important factor is our kitchen is kosher, so if I serve meat then everything else must be parve. That is no dairy at all. Any ideas?"
KV: I love a firecracker. I think they're really fun and they go with lots of different dips. You can flavor them lots of different ways.
CM: Explain what a firecracker is.
KV: Yeah. So that's a saltine. It's a southern tradition that usually uses ranch dressing powder packet, but you can use lots of different spices. The one that I did for this, I use za'atar, but again, go with God, whatever spice blend you like most. And you can put all your saltines in a Ziploc bag with a bunch of oil and your spice blend, usually some garlic powder, whatever you want to do in there, and the saltines will soak up all of that flavored oil overnight. It's astonishing and crazy how sponge-like they are and they just take everything in. The next day, when you're ready to go, you lay them out on your sheet pan and bake them for 15 minutes at a low temperature and they become this glossy, very rich, delicious spiced cracker that are much easier than making a cracker yourself, but they also can go with any of your favorite dips. They're a really popular party food in my house for sure.
CM: If you've never experienced one, highly recommended. I was skeptical, I will admit it. Not ashamed to say. But they were revelatory.
KV: Yeah, they're fun. Another thing is just a big puff pastry-based tart that you can cut into a bunch of little pieces. So if you're not serving meat, you could do a cheese on the bottom and some vegetables or even a fruit because it works nicely as a savory option too.
CM: Yeah, that's nice. It's classy. A cheesy tart evokes a little cheese straw kind of vibe, but you can adapt it to be so much more, and you could bring your olives or a nut element into that format.
KV: Totally.
CM: This baked thing that you can slice into little squares or whatever. It's really cool.
KV: Yeah. Also, I know you say you always start with a green salad, which is not a bad thing. Opening the idea of what a salad is, if you're always like, "It's got to be lettuce and then a couple things in it," what if there was no lettuce in your salad? How would you make a salad? You could do an entirely cucumber-based salad with nuts and cheese and other stuff. Molly Baz has a really great marinated, charred zucchini salad where you cut zucchini and you salt them so that it draws out some moisture and then you sear them really hard in a pan on the stove, and then when you pull them off the stove you dunk them in a vinaigrette and then you add cheese and I think she does hazelnuts or something. And you can do the searing part well in advance, and then they sit and cool in that dressing. And a big pile of those dressed zucchini with a nut whatever, that is a salad, it's just not greens-based. So thinking about a different vegetable that can be the base of your salad, I think can make it feel really elevated and different, but still hit that same note that you're trying to when you're balancing your starter with a different main.
CM: Yeah. I also think there's this funny hierarchy we do with a dinner party menu that's like, "This is a starter, this is a main course, this is a dessert." I'm not saying there shouldn't be some foods out to snack on when people are mingling and drinking, but just serve your salad thing or your vegetable side with your main. Maybe just don't think of these things as needing to be separate moments. They can be dishes that relate to each other, but they don't have to be coursed out in this more hierarchical way.
KV: Totally.
CM: Well, Kendra, you just planned a whole bunch of menus. How are you feeling?
KV: I hope I did okay. Now that I know what everybody's question is, I want to come back next week with fully built out menus for everyone, which I know is not how I need to spend my working hours, but I am thinking that that's what I want to do. The last thing I just wanted to say, which I know is like a random thing to end on, but I do think if you are feeling bogged down by the idea of creating a menu for a dinner party or you feel entrenched in what a dinner party menu has to look like and it's really difficult to break out of it, don't serve dinner, have lunch. I really mean it. Move your party earlier into the day, and suddenly, so many types of dishes that are so great for a crowd but you would never think are quote, unquote, "Okay to serve for dinner..." A frittata is so beautiful, a quiche is so beautiful. Hosting is just as fun earlier in the day. You can still drink. No one's going to be mad at you. You can still have a beautiful party. So maybe if you're really stuck in what it means to make a party at 7:00 PM happen, try making a party at 1:00 and see how that works instead.
CM: Well, Kendra, thank you so much for this. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us and I hope people are inspired to whatever they do, host, bring people together, use all these tools as a way of inspiring your next gathering, not preventing it.
KV: Absolutely.
CM: If you have a dinner emergency on your hands, write to us at podcasts@bonappetit.com or leave us a voice message at 212-286-SOS1. That's 212-286-7071. We'd love to feature your question on the show. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a rating and review on your podcast app of choice, and hit that follow button so you never miss an episode. You can find the recipes mentioned on today's episode linked in our show notes and on the Epicurious app brought to you by Conde Nast. Just search Epicurious in the app store and download today. And if you're not yet a subscriber, you can sign up today for a 30-day free trial in the app or at bonappetit.com.
Thanks for listening to Dinner SOS. I'm your host, Chris Morocco. My co-host this week is Kendra Vaculin. Our senior producer is Michele O'Brien. Peyton Hayes is our associate producer. Research editing by Marissa Wolkenberg. Jake Lummus is our studio engineer. This episode was mixed by Amar Lal at Macrosound. Jordan Bell is our executive producer. Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of global audio. Next week, Shivani loves a salad, but by Friday the vegetables in her fridge are just looking sad.
Shivani: I would love to have a salad framework in a way that I know that the salad I have on Monday is going to be just as good as the salad I have on Friday.